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Awesome Mandarin! Must listen!
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self-taught-mba -



Quote:

I have to disagree with self-taught-mba, whose very name implies a certain degree of pomposity
(had to say it, I think that every time I read it lol),

Thank you for your honesty. I have often regretted naming myself that. However, it is the most
descriptive way to describe myself and is not meant to be arrogant at all. I am after all
self-taught and an MBA. Being self-taught is nothing special-believe me, I'm not trying to make
myself out to be a hero or anything. If you read my story about how I learned you realize that it
was forced upon me because the system failed me.

Like I said before being self-taught is totally within the realm of possibility to get to a basic
level. The biggest problem I have is with the attitude the "Chinese must be hard." That is
absolutely ridiculous but a common misbelief. Note how no one is lauding his English skills! As if
somehow Chinese were more difficult than English!!!! This is a very American point of view, but
very common. We do not appreciate how hard English languages to learn and I am most impressed by
his use of the English language.

Why is it that we say "Wow, you speak Chinese!" but we don't say "Wow, you speak English!" Think
about that.



Quote:

If you have developed that speaking skill solely from self study I would be blown away.

Come meet some of the people I've met and you'll be blown away then. Last week I sat down with Da
Wei (you know the guy that's had his own TV show) for 3 hours, who was also self-taught for the
most part. (But then again people pretty much tried to chase him off the board for advocating
reform that more closely mimics the methods self-taught people have been using)



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bomaci -



Quote:

I also would like to know if you had any language partners bomaci? How often did you speak with
your Chinese coworker? If you have developed that speaking skill solely from self study I would be
blown away.

I have an opportunity to use chinese daily, so I get alot of speaking practice. However I still
feel I need to study. I don't think speaking practice alone gets you anywhere. I have met
countless of immigrants in Sweden who get tons of speaking practice everyday and still have a
thick accent. You still have to do a lot of listening and reading on your own. Where speaking
practice can help is to confirm that you are on the right track, that people actually can
understand your mandarin.










necroflux -

self-taught-mba, your post totally dispels any assumptions I made from your name, I fully withdraw
that comment. Well said. I was fully expecting a return jab at "necroflux" lol.










necroflux -



Quote:

I have an opportunity to use chinese daily, so I get alot of speaking practice. However I still
feel I need to study. I don't think speaking practice alone gets you anywhere. I have met
countless of immigrants in Sweden who get tons of speaking practice everyday and still have a
thick accent. You still have to do a lot of listening and reading on your own. Where speaking
practice can help is to confirm that you are on the right track, that people actually can
understand your mandarin.

No question I think every aspect of a language is equally important. I personally can feel when
I've been ignoring one in favor of the others.. it's like filling up multiple pools with water if
you will.










carlo -

Thanks for the link to the complete script of 我爱我家. I searched for this a couple of years
ago without success (I think they had only finished transcribing four episodes last time I
checked), it's nice to have the full version, I'm sure many learners of Chinese will appreciate it.










imron -

Don't know about the other scripts, but watching the first episode while looking at the script,
there were quite a few mistakes. Usually it seemed to be that the person doing the transcribing
was just using a different way of saying the same thing, but at other times, there are complete
sentences in the script that aren't said in the show.










Gestalt -

Bomaci,

I'm impressed. If your patented method costs less than Steve Kaufmann's, I'll buy it

How many hours a day/week did you spend speaking Mandarin, and how much on self-study? I presume
you must have spent quite a bit of time each day to get that good that fast?










bomaci -



Quote:

How many hours a day/week did you spend speaking Mandarin, and how much on self-study? I presume
you must have spent quite a bit of time each day to get that good that fast?

I approximately speak mandarin for an hour every day. So of course that helps. However I had to
study alot to be able to do that without the conversation turning into english. I self study on
all the spare time I have. I try to get in at least an hour of self study a day, sometimes i
manage 2. However I would like to point out that while being able to converse in mandarin alot
helps with fluency it does nothing to correct your tones unless you train yourself to hear your
errors. Also vocabulary used in conversation tends to be a bit limited so you still have to study
on your own.










self-taught-mba -



Quote:

self-taught-mba, your post totally dispels any assumptions I made from your name, I fully withdraw
that comment.

No offense taken originally and thank you for being cordial with a withdrawal.










mandarinstudent -

Bomaci, thanks for the links to the scripts for 我爱我家, but it seems what Imron said was
true:



Quote:

Don't know about the other scripts, but watching the first episode while looking at the script,
there were quite a few mistakes. Usually it seemed to be that the person doing the transcribing
was just using a different way of saying the same thing, but at other times, there are complete
sentences in the script that aren't said in the show.


My chinese is not good enough to pick out what the mistakes are sometimes...i.e. I know that what
they are saying isnt in the script, but i cant pick it out..or I hear an extra syllable or a
missing syllable but dont know what it is. Given that they are speaking so fast and using "native
speak" (今儿 instead of 今天 which is what im used to hearing...etc.), it is taking me forever
to muddle through the first 5 minutes of the show because the script doesnt exactly match. Im used
to recordings where they speak "perfect" Chinese very slowly. Im trying to get to the next level
and after listening to your interview and how well you speak, I thought it would be a good idea to
try this to improve my listening ability and help me speak more fluently. This show is perfect for
practicing "practical, everyday" Chinese that gives you an idea of the speed and manner in which
real (not from the tapes that come with your textbook or people reading the news)Chinese people
sound, but Im stuck because the scripts dont match perfectly. How did you get around this? Is
there a place to download the exact scripts? Maybe there is another show that is similar that also
has scripts to go with it? Is there a kind soul willing to correct the scripts for us beginners?












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Chinese Tutor - Where to go from Pimsleur? -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Where to go from Pimsleur?
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runehh -

After a slow start I have now almost finished Pimsleur 1,2 and 3. So where to go from here? I have
bought several different textbooks and some of them are ok, but I dread the day I run out of
Pimsleur lessons, and will have to rely on books alone. Maybe I am stupid or lazy (probably both)
but I find it very difficult to learn from the books, now that I am used to the CD's.
Does anybody know of any Pimsleur style CD's or tapes that might be helpful? Or have any
suggestions as to how I can make the transition to books?



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kudra -

I don't know at what level Pimsleur stops.
2 things you might check:

1. general texts
http://www. /showthread.php?t=9612

2. Just see if you can understand the audio of lesson 1 of David and Helen
http://classes.yale.edu/chns130/Listening/index.html

Presumably if lesson 1 is understandable, then you are at 2nd year US univ. level.
Then at least there are many 10's of hrs of D+H audio.










anticks -

Congrats on finishing all 3. How do you find your conversational skills are at the moment? and
your listening?

Ive been wanting to find out what kind of level people are at after all 3 pimsleur courses as im
almost done with Level 1. My girl (who is chinese) said, after listning to a few of conversational
parts of various units in Mandarin III, that it sounds quite good and if i get to that level i
should be able to talk and understand quite a bit of day to day conversation.

My plan after Pimsleur is to look more at Rosetta Stone and Chinesepod.com for topics on different
things and using familiar words in different situations. I think there will be a few things that
they cover that Pimsleur does not. Right now im also about to start a short course. Im taking a 10
week, 30 hour evening course teaching Mandarin with a focus on communication. It wasnt too hard
for find out about this. Alot of local schools here get hired out by teachers who teach evening
classes in all sorts of things. Maybe you could look into it. Im not sure how much a 30 hour
course would actually help? Anyone had any experience in short courses?

Im planning to goto China at the end of 2007/Start of 2008. So that gives me over a year and a
half to study Mandarin.










incuria -

It seems like we are looking at the same mandarin courses. Some just starting out while others at
the end of a particular course.

Would it be possible to put up a post of the more common commercially available ones. Someone who
has fluency and had exposure to the various types of formats (book/cd,software, podcasts etc) and
rank them somehow in terms of beginner/intermediate/advanced.

There is already an extensive posting on different textbooks used at University. Non academic
types (or those not yet interested in learning the written script) such as myself are relying upon
straight off the shelf book/audio courses.

It would be helpful to have an idea what study materials would flow from one level to the next, so
we could get an idea and direction to head in to expand our level of knowledge or stay in one
place for the time being to revise.

No Course would cover everything so it is natural to ask the question "what next".

I'm just starting with Plimsleur 1 but supplement with Chinesepod.com (in the newbies section) as
I find the podcasts to be humerous and fun. A break from the repetition but also good to hear a
different set of voices.










kudra -

Just to comment on ...


Quote:

or those not yet interested in learning the written script...

The somewhat old Spoken Standard Chinese 1,2 series by Huang and Stimson was all pinyin. It has a
companion series of texts -- Written Standard Chinese 1-4. Apparently you can buy tapes for them
all but they are pricey. (There was a draft of Spoken vol 3, but it never got published. )( home
made mp3 may be available on the web somewhere at some point.)

It seems like at some point, you will want the "academic" treatment to get a systematic
presentation of grammar and patterns. I thought this was a very strong point about the Spoken
Standard Chinese 1-2 series.

I guess what you need is people to chime in, who've had success getting to mid intermediate level,
for example, doing self study using off the shelf audio/cd products. My guess, based on nothing
but my experiential bias toward the "academic" treatment, is that they are a rare breed.










incuria -

I think you are very correct kudra. Ultimately one could only go so far without learning the
script and just relying upon audio and pinyin.

It is good to see there is choice as to how deep you want to plunge into. I work on a front desk
where a small percentage (10% - guess) of people I meet have South East Asian background and are
invovled in litigation in the Court over work related injury and industrial relations/employment
type issues. Most of those speak good english - only a smaller number (1% guess) can't communicate
in english at all.

We have professional interpreters (usually asked for by the plaintiffs solicitor), to sit in Court
and interpret in real time during the proceedings regardless of their standard of english.

Often the plaintiff will arrive before their solicitor or interpreter. I think it would be great
for me to be able to greet and give directions/basic information in their native tongue to assist
them feel at ease with the process. Who wouldn't feel nervous going to Court?

Hence relying upon audio to communicate in the first instance. As an Officer of the Court I can't
start giving interpretations/translations on legal issues so basic tourist type dialogue to help
settle people in before their solicitor arrives will be just the thing.

Thanks for the info on Huang and Stimson. Shall keep an eye out for it on the net. I'll stick to
audio and pinyin for the moment and just get used to the sounds of the language.










gato -



Quote:

small percentage (10% - guess) of people I meet have South East Asian background and are invovled
in litigation

Do you know if they speak Mandarin Chinese? Don't want to plunge in and study the wrong language.










bomaci -



Quote:

I guess what you need is people to chime in, who've had success getting to mid intermediate level,
for example, doing self study using off the shelf audio/cd products. My guess, based on nothing
but my experiential bias toward the "academic" treatment, is that they are a rare breed.

I have gotten to the intermediate level (if intermediate level means that you understand the last
lesson of "David and Helen in china" ) almost entirely through self study. However I have also had
many opportunities to communicate with natvie speakers. I first used Pimsleur and later "Standard
chinese: a modular approach" by the Foreign Service Institute. However I am not sure that I would
recommend either. I would suggest you have a look at the Assimil chinese course. You can read
about the Assimil methodology more in detail here:
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com...=22&PN=1&TPN=1.










incuria -

#7 Gato my percentages and geography are probably way out. A fairer picture is a cross section of
clients come by. Languages include Mandarin, Vietnamese, Arabic, Farsi/Dari, Spanish. I can almost
guess the origin of the client by surname, against a backdrop of mainly caucasian people.

The assigned interpreters put any guess work to rest by identifying themselves as "I'm the Farsi
interpreter for Ms ....." (so I get to cheat on that score )

I seem to think that a lot of people in chinese forum are learning for more exacting and
professional roles of linguistic use than I will ever need to worry about.

I do take my hat off to those people. I admire anyone who is mulitilingual regardless of the
purpose or origin of that learning process. I think it is great the way people "think aloud" on
the forum and give ideas on their learning curve to where they are heading.










gato -

Good luck, incuria!












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Study Chinese - Potter star Emma Watson to continue studies

ENTERTAINMENT / Gossip






Potter star Emma Watson to continue studies

(IANS)
Updated: 2007-07-07 18:03



London, July 7 - 'Harry Potter' star Emma Watson will continue with her
education, despite having earned enough money to live her entire life in
luxury.

The 17-year-old actress, who plays the role of Hermione Granger in Potter
movies, is already a multi-millionaire, contactmusic.com website reported.

She says: 'Let's be honest - I have enough money never to have to work
again, but I would never want that. Learning keeps me motivated.'























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Chinese language - Having the great Chinese adventure

CITYLIFE / My Opinion






Having the great Chinese adventure

By Matt Doran (chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2007-07-05 15:52



Prior to my departure earlier this year for what was supposed to be a
mere four months in China, my friends questioned whether I'd be homesick,
whether I'd have culture shock, and whether I'd be kissing the ground
when I returned home in May.

Thing is, I never went home in May. After a month studying Chinese at
Beijing Foreign Studies University (BFSU) in Haidian District, I decided
four months just wasn't enough, and re-applied for the fall semester. In
between, I'm working full-time for Chinadaily.com.cn and living in an
apartment that my boss helped me find, in the northern reaches of
Chaoyang District.

And, five months into my China experience, I'm happy to report that
there's nowhere else I'd rather be.

That's because the last few months have been some of the best I've ever
had - I've had a stronger dose of independence and adventure since I got
here than I'd experienced yet in the States, and I love it.

When you move to a place without speaking a single word of the language,
every day and every little routine aspect of your life becomes an
adventure, as you try to grope your way blindly through the various
situations that would be rote in the States.

Riding the bus somewhere? All well and good, provided I can figure out
which bus I need to be on. Recently, a co-worker's husband kindly pointed
out the bus I needed to get over to BFSU from my apartment. He got the
bus number right, but unfortunately guided me in the wrong direction. I
ended up somewhere past the Fifth Ring Road, on a dirt road in the middle
of an orchard, near the bus depot when we reached the end of the line. I
probably should have realized earlier that I needed to get off and go the
opposite direction, but it was an adventure, and I saw a new part of the
city that otherwise I'd have missed. Then there's the constant adventure
of trying to feed myself. Back near BFSU, there's a cornucopia of small,
cheap restaurants and street food vendors catering to hungry and hard up
for cash students. In my new neighborhood, no such luck. My room-mate and
I spent two solid days unsuccessfully combing the neighborhood for a new
eatery to call "The Food Spot."

"The Food Spot" is basically a restaurant that college-age guys go to
pretty much everyday for a quick, cheap and filling meal. It's usually a
mom-and-pop operation, the wait staff know what you're going to order
every time, and you get to fill your stomach without emptying your wallet.

I lost 10 pounds before my room-mate finally found "The Spot" last week,
at an outdoor food court in front of a supermarket just a minute's walk
from our apartment. For just a few kuai, we can get all of our favorites:
fried noodles, fried rice, and jiaozi (dumplings).

A lot of Westerners get their rear-ends kicked by China; they can't
handle the linguistic and cultural barriers, the pollution, the spitting,
the apparent inability of Chinese people to ever line up for anything,
and the sometimes less-than-efficient manner in which tasks are handled.
I figure if I wanted to avoid those sorts of hassles, then I could have
stayed in America, and what fun would that have been?

If we're in an asylum, and many of my fellow ex-pats think we are, then
I've taken a "can't beat'em, might as well join 'em," approach, and
joined the inmates, turning weaknesses into strengths.

The language barrier? It actually provides a nice layer of insulation
from the swarming crowds of the city; being the dumb foreigner actually
helps get a lot of things done with minimum hassle.

The spitting thing? Hey, if the Chinese think Americans don't know how to
hock a loogie, they'll think again when I let one fly on the sidewalk. If
they can do it, I can do it.

Lining up, or rather not lining up, is my favorite part. Why? Because I'm
bigger than 99 percent of the Chinese people I've ever seen! Who's going
to get in my way if I want to be the first onto the bus? Me or The guy
who's 5 feet tall and weighs 100 pounds? For the first week or so, I was
always getting shoved aside by tiny old ladies, but I finally learned
that you have to be aggressive, and now I will not hesitate to drop the
hammer if someone cuts in front of me.

And that's the key to a great China experience: don't fight the insanity,
but rather, revel in it. What a great country.

Matt Doran is a polisher for Chinadaily.com.cn.
















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Learning Chinese - Tourism Etiquette Rules for Chinese Citizens Traveling Abroad

CITYLIFE / Tourism Etiquette






Tourism Etiquette Rules for Chinese Citizens Traveling Abroad

(bbs.chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2007-07-04 11:21



Chinese citizens traveling abroad must observe the local standards of
propriety while keeping their own national dignity.

1 Keep the place clean and tidy, and protect the environment. Be dressed
appropriatedly. Don't yell or talk loudly.

2 Respect senior citizens and care for children. And be ready to help
others in need. To the female practice "lady first"; to others follow the
rule "after you, please".

3 Keep track of the time difference and arrive at appointments on time.
Wait in a queue to get your turn and stand behind the yellow line.

4 Be a welcome guest in a hotel. Don't damage objects in hotel rooms.
Wine and dine quietly, and don't waste food.

5 Go in for healthy and cultured entertainments, and say no to
pornography, gambling and drugs.

6 Follow the rules and tips on sightseeing tours. Be careful to observe
the local customs or taboos. Don't violate or offend against them.

7 When in doubt or difficulty, make enquiries to the Chinese embassy or
the consulate. Be a responsible traveler and enjoy a safe and pleasant
trip.
















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Tibet and know more interesting tour routes leading to this divine place.
Please click here!

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sights from mysterious Yunnan Province!Yunnan New Film Project,Travel
with the film.Wanna know more? Please click here!




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� Teatime!





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What's on: Hong Kong modern dance







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Learning Mandarin - Leaping out of the pop star shadows

? ?



CITYLIFE / what's on








Leaping out of the pop star shadows

By Mu Qian (China Daily)
Updated: 2007-07-03 08:56

Silver Rain, presented by the City Contemporary Dance Company, is
inspired by the immense Chinese culture. [File photo]

The Hong Kong Culture Series - Dance Collection introduces Beijing
audiences to Hong Kong's modern dance world, an artistic form often
overshadowed by its pop cultures.

The event opened on Sunday at the Oriental Pioneer Theater of Beijing
with a free photographic exhibition and will run through till July 10.

The event's presenter, Beijing LDTX Modern Dance Company, has also
invited four modern dance groups from Hong Kong to perform at the
Oriental Pioneer Theater: City Contemporary Dance Company, Unlock Dancing
Plaza, why_me_dance and Passover Dance Company.

"These troupes' works are of various styles. Some may shock you, some may
make you laugh, and some will bring you very fine feelings," says Willy
Tsao, artistic director of Beijing LDTX Modern Dance Company and City
Contemporary Dance Company.

Today and tomorrow, Hong Kong's first and longest-running professional
modern dance group City Contemporary Dance Company will present a
performance titled Silver Rain, which puts together the most memorable
works of six outstanding choreographers of the group, including Tsao. The
works are inspired by the immense Chinese culture including philosophy,
history, operas and even Chinese rock'n'roll, and Xing Liang, a graduate
of Beijing Dance Academy who has won numerous awards.

On July 6, the Unlock Dancing Plaza will perform Whisper of Love, which
is "the pursuit of ordinary sensation from the extraordinary world".

Unlock Dancing Plaza tries to stress the exchange between audience and
performers, and create a new and tailored experience of modern dance
viewing for audiences.

On July 8, the why_me_dance group will present You Had Better Dance,
which was inspired by John Lennon's song Beautiful Boy. On July 10, the
Passover Dance Company will perform a work titled Xin Xiang, which the
choreographers will bring a bit of freshness to the busy city.

There will be a "meet-the-artist" session after every performance, and
the dancers and choreographers from Hong Kong will also have dance
workshops during their stay in Beijing.

The Hong Kong Culture Series will present a number of events to introduce
the representative culture of Hong Kong. After the modern dance
collection, the series will bring the Cantonese Artists Association of
Hong Kong to perform a Cantonese opera in Beijing in October.

"We hope that this series will change many people's impression that Hong
Kong is a commercial city with no culture," says Tsao. "Though it's very
easy for mainlanders to travel to Hong Kong now, the Hong Kong Culture
Series provide a rare opportunity to get to know Hong Kong's culture
systematically."

The event is supported by the Beijing Office of the Government of the
Hong Kong SAR, Hong Kong Arts Development Council and the Art Development
Fund of the Home Affair Bureau of the Government of the Hong Kong SAR.

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Chinese language - Exhibit honoring Diana opens in London

ENTERTAINMENT / Theater & Arts






Exhibit honoring Diana opens in London

(AP)
Updated: 2007-06-30 13:53








A visitor views pictures, reflected in a mirrored surface, of late
Princess Diana, made by photographer Mario Testino, at Kensington Palace
in central London, Friday June 29, 2007. [AP]


LONDON - An exhibit of photographs, film footage and other memorabilia
from the life of Diana, Princess of Wales will go on display Saturday at
the palace where she lived.

Called "Diana: A Princess Remembered," the exhibit is the largest
collection of images of the princess to date, organizers said. It opens
with a photograph of the princess as a toddler and follows her through
her marriage to Prince Charles. Diana died in August, 1997, after the car
in which she was a passenger crashed in a Paris tunnel.

The exhibit, at Kensington Palace, opens on the eve of what would have
been the princess' 46th birthday and just two months before the 10th
anniversary of her death.

Exhibitions featuring Diana have been held at Kensington Palace in the
past, including a collection of her dresses and photographs from her
famous photo shoot with fashion photographer Mario Testino.

"This is a more formal exhibition," said Sarah Watson, spokeswoman for
Historic Royal Palaces, which is organizing the show. "It brings together
previous exhibits and tells the story of her life."

The exhibition focuses on four themes: Diana the princess, Diana the
mother, Diana the fashion icon and Diana the humanitarian. Video
interviews with various people who worked with the princess are also
featured.

Visitors can see the exhibition from July 30 through the beginning of
January 2008. Entry to the exhibit is included in the admission price to
Kensington Palace.












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