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againstwind -

向这位英雄般的女士致敬！


我们需要更多像这位女士一样勇敢的人！
这司机真丢人呐！



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HashiriKata -

Thanks for the interest some people have shown in my earlier post.

OK, let's be straight talking: I'd certainly bow to the woman if she did this in her own country,
but I just don't happen to appreciate the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly
teach people how to behave. It'd be extremely simple minded to think that Chinese people don't
know that driving on a cycle lane is wrong and dangerous...
(And don't forget: Bush certainly thinks that he is doing Iraqi people a favour in bombing them!)

Let me tell you a traffic scene I myself witnessed:
I was once in a country with a strong presense of the American army. In the street where I was
walking there happened to be a traffic accident involving a pedestrian and a motocycle. The local
police then had to stop the traffic to take evidence of the accident, drawing the position of the
motorcycle in the road, interviewing the witnesses, etc...At that time, there was a big American
army truck among the traffic being stopped, but this truck did not want to wait until the accident
was cleared to resume driving. It just simply rode on, and onto the motorcyle lying in the middle
of the road, speeding ahead, leaving the motocyle behind as a sheet of metal, with the local
police helplessly looking on...










roddy -



Quote:

It'd be extremely simple minded to think that Chinese people don't know that driving on a cycle
lane is wrong and dangerous...

Of course they know! Some of them, however, still do it, and deserved to be stopped and sent back
on their selfish way!

Thanks for the story about the US Army, I look forward to understanding its relevance one day.










Lu -

Hashirikata: In your story, the American truck equals not the foreign woman with the bike, but the
guy in the car in the bicycle lane. They both break the law and put people in danger. It doesn't
matter where they come from, they are just wrong.

The woman with the bike is not enforcing her own rules on people who disagree with her, she is in
fact helping the Chinese enforce their own laws. When cars break this law and go into the bicycle
lane, this is a danger to both the woman, and the thousands of Chinese people on the same lane.
You might say she's interfering with things that are none of her business, but you might also say
she cares too much about China to let bad things like this happen.

I say kudos to her for what she does, wish I was brave enough to do that.










Shadowdh -

While I agree that motorists in a cycle lane (and this is by no means endemic to China only) sucks
rear, I understand where Hashirikata is coming from... its amazing how many think they have the
automatic right to tell or teach another anything... (yes yes I know the come back or reversal
here... I am also guilty of it and of course I am right... well that is until my wife enters the
conversation when miraculously I am wrong... all the time)...










HashiriKata -



Quote:

Thanks for the story about the US Army, I look forward to understanding its relevance one day.

You certainly may if you try but if you don't, I still respect your right not to understand,
roddy! I won't force myself on others like those characters in the stories above.










cjbaker -

Ha, good for her! I've wanted to do that so many times. Agreed, in many cases, as a foreigner it's
best to go with the flow and not criticize your host country for differences with your own. Still,
you're a participant in the country you live in, a person - even as a foreigner, being critical of
others for being rude is not outside normal expectations, even in China. It's interesting, Chinese
themselves tend to get mad about things like cars in the bike lane and agree with me, while the
ones who get mad when they hear things criticized by foreigners tend to be foreigners who have
never lived in China. You wouldn't expect immigrants to a Western country to just "take it", would
you? The ones I know sure don't...










bianfuxia -



Quote:

but I just don't happen to appreciate the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly
teach people how to behave. It'd be extremely simple minded to think that Chinese people don't
know that driving on a cycle lane is wrong and dangerous...

HashiriKata, your view is fascinating.

But can you seriously draw a parallel between a white person trying to follow the laws of the
country she has chosen to live in, and either the US action in Iraq OR some story about the US
Army truck messing up an accident scene? I fail to see the connection.

You are imposing so many prejudices onto this scene.

First, you state in your earlier post that "even the dumbest assume they can come and teach".
Well, how do you know SHE is dumb? Second, you assume she has come to China "uninvitedly" to
"teach people how to behave". Where's your evidence? Based on the story and the photographs ALL
you can state for sure is that she is white, and she stood up to a blatant law-breaker. Third, you
assume she is "extremely simple minded" to think Chinese people don't know the dangers and
illegality of driving in the bike lane. Yet there is neither evidence for her simple-mindedness
nor evidence that the guy in question actually knew it was dangerous or illegal.

Indeed, whichever way you cut it, the guy needed to be told: he either didn't know, and she's done
the guy a civic favour, one human-being to another; or, he knew but didn't care, in which case
she's done the right thing for society.

Finally, your objection to these scene apparently comes from a distaste for Americans (because
both your elaborations refer to the actions of the US government and military). But pray tell, how
do you tell from these images that the lady in question is not Swiss, or Swedish, or from
Liechenstein, or some equally inoffensive nationality. OR, how can you be sure that even if she is
American, she isn't a card-carrying member of the Green party (she is on a bike after all and not
in a Hummer) who has voted for Ralph Nader or Jesse Jackson her whole life?

Basically you have here an endearing story of the meek standing up for what is right against the
strong and arrogant, and doing so peacefully. Yet because she was white and he was Chinese, you
can't accept that such a transaction between two human beings can be iinspiring for those of us in
this world who are tired of big strong people doing what they feel like despite the presence of
clear rules that are designed solely for the safety and convenience of us all. Instead, on the
basis of nothing but prejudice you build up a narrative of white imperialism and liken it to the
war in Iraq.

I don't deny there are many people from the US, Europe, Australia and similar places who think
they are uber-righteous because they come to China and similar places and try to tell the locals
how to cut their lunch. Some are lefties, some are righties, and some are religious types.

But this doesn't imply that every single time a white member of this society says "hey, you can't
drive your big car down the bike lane" to a person who knows this damn well but doesn't care, the
first person is a latter-day missionary whose self-ordained purpose in life is to tell the
ignorant natives how they should lead their lives.

It's a local narrative, dude. Weak law-abiding citizen vs. strong law-breaker citizen. Peaceful
protest wins the day. I can't see the problem if you take this for what it is.

Yay to her!










yonitabonita -



Quote:

OK, let's be straight talking: I'd certainly bow to the woman if she did this in her own country,
but I just don't happen to appreciate the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly
teach people how to behave.
(

I also don't like the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly teach people how to
behave. But like many posters have already pointed out, it's not like this woman is teaching/
imposing any values that are foreign here. Seperating vehicle lanes from cycling lanes is a public
safely measure created by Chinese people to benefit Chinese people.

And as you say yourself,

Quote:

it's not as if Chinese people don't know that driving on a cycle lane is wrong and dangerous

Being a grown man, the driver ought to know better. So what's wrong with asking someone who's
being an asshole, to stop being one so that the rest of society can live more safely.



Quote:

And don't forget: Bush certainly thinks that he is doing Iraqi people a favour in bombing them!)

Are you suggesting that it's not in the Chinese community's interests to enforce road traffic
rules? Are Chinese people being hurt by this in some way that can allow you to compare this
situation with the bombing of Iraqi people?

Are the woman and Bush analogous in some way?

I can't see the point you're trying to make. Or rather I can see it but I think it's a bad one.

Y










md1101 -

i say congratulations to that lady.

As for my say on HashiriKata, I think i know the angle that you're coming from. You don't like the
self righteous bastards demanding that their customs be followed.

but the important thing here is that she is NOT enforcing western standards but merely enforcing
the standards that China is in fact trying to enforce itself. she should have every right to
expect the rules are followed.

Would a westerner in China be wrong to demand that theft and murder laws be enforced? Or is
because of the fact he/she is a foreigner deem her a mere uninvited guest not worthy of a citizens
rights?

anyway i admire her guts. like roddy i too find myself ignoring most of the queue jumping, traffic
violations in china now. sometimes i even jump the queue myself (particularly when i find im
actually moving backwards because of everyone else jumping the queue). this lady has given me a
wake up call!












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